19:05 [@Maro] Apparently, a lot of people want to see an "enchantment matters" block.
19:05 [%M_Tabak] How many of those words were "emblem?"
19:05 [@Maro] I'd say 80% of all planeswalkers submitted made an emblem for their ultimate.
19:05 [@Maro] Also, a lot of words had mana that went crazy!
19:06 [@Maro] If need be, I can talk for Mike.
19:06 [@Maro] "Look at me. I'm Mike Turian. I'm lead developer of Scars of Mirrodin."
19:07 [@Maro] "I like attacking with green creatures."
19:07 [@Maro] "I'm a big fan of potatoes."
19:07 [~Gardevi] Heh, that will have to work.
19:07 [~Gardevi] We'll start without him in a bit if he can't be on time.
19:07 [~Gardevi] He's the one that wanted the chat at 4!
19:08 [@Maro] I'll take everyone on single-handed.
19:08 [@Maro] Just don't ask about potatoes.
19:08 [@Maro] Or aggressive green creatures.
19:08 [@Maro] Or really development-y things.
19:08 [@Maro] Why was Card X costed like it was? Don't know.
19:09 [%alexis_j] maybe with enough designers we can simulate a Mike
19:09 [~Gardevi] Okay, well, we have Ken Nagle and Alexis Jansen now. That should hold us over for now.
19:09 [~Gardevi] Let's go ahead and go over rules
19:09 [~Gardevi] if he's not here by the time I'm done, we'll go on ahead without him!
19:09 [@Maro] Rules? No one said there would be rules.
19:10 [~Gardevi] There are ALWAYS rules
19:10 [%M_Tabak] Yay rules!
19:10 [@Maro] I live to break rules.
19:10 [@Maro] No really, I do.
19:10 [@Maro] In the game though, not in real life.
19:10 [~Gardevi] Welcome to the Scars of Mirrodin R&D Chat with guests Mark Rosewater and (maybe?) Mike Turian!
19:10 [~Gardevi] They've both (tried to) come here today to answer questions about SOM and maybe splice a little GDS2 in the mix; but, as we can't have everyone talking at once, there are some rules.
19:11 [~Gardevi] We'll use a queue system to determine who asks the next (and first) question. The queue will be open after I finish reviewing how things will be done. To add yourself to the queue, type "/notice Gardevi addme". DO NOT DO THIS NOW.
19:11 [@Maro] Rule #1: No talking about Fight Club.
19:11 [~Gardevi] When your name is called, I will give you voice and you can ask your question directly to the chat room (bypassing the mute).
19:11 [~Gardevi] To maximize our allotted time (~1.5 hours), PLEASE have your questions pretyped, and only ONE question per user, meaning no multilayered or follow-up questions.
19:12 [~Gardevi] Also, please keep your questions pertaining to Scars of Mirrodin and/or the GDS2. We had someone ask about some obscure Morningtide card in the Conflux Chat and it was a bit...awkward.
19:12 [@Maro] I'm ready. Bring on the questions.
19:12 [~Gardevi] Also, for upkeep, I will not add any precreated mib_xx##x# names to the queue. To change your name, type "/nick [newname]".
19:12 [~Gardevi] Well, that about wraps it up.
19:12 [~Gardevi] Would anyone like to add any thing?
19:13 [~Gardevi] Mark, all our Mike-substitutes?
19:13 [@Maro] I'm ready to go.
19:13 [%NorrYtt] I'm reading GDS2 submissions, I'm good.
19:13 [%alexis_j] sounds good to me, although I like obscure cards!
19:13 [~Gardevi] Then let's get started! The queue is now open. (type "/notice Gardevi addme" to join the queue (previous addmes were not counted)
19:13 [~Gardevi] first question to jdonland!
19:13 [+jdonland] Were any SOM designs intended mostly or entirely for the Eternal formats?
19:14 [@Maro] We don't tend to design all the much for Eternal.
19:14 [@Maro] What we have found is that creating cards for Standard creates enough cards that Eternal likes.
19:14 [@Maro] SOM is an artifact block so in general it has more Eternal hits.
19:15 [@Maro] W did know that Mox Opal might see some Eternal play.
19:15 [~Gardevi] (Next few - Adam_Styborski, PhoenixLau, No_tomorrow)
19:15 [@Maro] I do not know of any specific cards other than Opal that were set up for Eternal.
19:15 [%alexis_j] I think Leonin Arbiter might be.
19:15 [@Maro] If Turian were here, he'd list off the few that were.
19:16 [%alexis_j] usually those sorts of things are more developer-y, unfortunately for this chat
19:16 [@Maro] There are a few, but design doesn't tend to worry about that.
19:16 [%NorrYtt] Infect might end up Eternal relevant aggro, maybe. Not sure.
19:16 [@Maro] ga
19:16 [~Gardevi] Oh, and Maro (and anyone else jumping in), go ahead and type GA so I know when to go ahead.
19:16 [%NorrYtt] ga
19:16 [~Gardevi] Nice, you remembered!
19:16 [%alexis_j] ga :)
19:17 [+Adam_Styborski] Where did Untamed Might come from; is it related to creatures with infect?
19:17 [@Maro] Did we put an XG Giant Growth in a set with infect by accident? No.
19:17 [@Maro] :)
19:17 [@Maro] We were very conscious in design about Giant Growth effects because of infect.
19:18 [@Maro] In fact, Magic 2011 was going to have Rancor until development payed it with infect.
19:18 [@Maro] ga
19:18 [@Maro] I will now let Mike speak for himself.
19:19 [@MikeTurian] hi!
19:19 [~Gardevi] Hello Mike!
19:19 [@MikeTurian] hellow
19:19 [@MikeTurian] hello
19:19 [@Maro] Is it freaky now that Mike is here how much I sounded like him?
19:19 [+PhoenixLAU] With the Infect mechanic being a natural counter to indestructible creatures, did that affect the number/commonality of indestructible creatures you were willing to put in this set (or in later sets in the block)?
19:19 [@Maro] Yes.
19:19 [~Gardevi] (Next few in the queue - No_Tomorrow, ContagionClasp, toracctid)
19:19 [@Maro] Did you want a longer answer?
19:19 [@MikeTurian] hehe
19:20 [@MikeTurian] It was a big reason you could see creatures at lower commonalities
19:20 [@Maro] We were very aware of the nice interaction between indestructible and infect and thus made more indestructible creatures.
19:20 [@MikeTurian] we want to create fun gameplay
19:20 [@MikeTurian] and having a ton of unkillable creatures wouldn't be fun
19:20 [@Maro] We were also trying hard to have the Mirrodin side feel Mirrodin and darksteel felt like one of the better tools to use.
19:20 [@MikeTurian] it is also the reason you see cards like arrest and BB -4/-4
19:20 [@Maro] ga
19:21 [@MikeTurian] which are common answers to indestructible creatures
19:21 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:21 [+No_Tomorrow] First off, I absolutely love SoM, great job with it! Now, random card question: was there a reason for printing 'Disperse' other than for limited, being strictly worse than 'Into the Roil'?
19:21 [@Maro] I didn't do that. Mike?
19:21 [@MikeTurian] Funny enough Mark asked for all reprints in the set to be from Mirrodin proper
19:22 [@Maro] Seriously, Magic has to have strictly better thans and strictly worse thans.
19:22 [@MikeTurian] which of course Disperse isn't
19:22 [@MikeTurian] but then Rise of Eldrazi stole our card late in their dev cycle
19:22 [@MikeTurian] taking Regress
19:22 [@Maro] The pendulum has to swing both ways.
19:22 [@MikeTurian] which Mark had placed in SOM
19:22 [@MikeTurian] I still wanted a simple bounce effect
19:22 [@Maro] I was sad that the all repeats are from Mirrodin block didn't get kept.
19:23 [+No_Tomorrow] Why not en echoing truth reprint? If I may ask a sub-question
19:23 [@Maro] I didn't count the one repeat that had come from "the future" which was this set.
19:23 [@MikeTurian] and was looking to an answer for Planeswalkers in limited as well
19:23 [@Maro] ga
19:23 [+No_Tomorrow] thanks :-)
19:23 [@MikeTurian] although it isn't a great answer to Planeswalkers
19:23 [~Gardevi] No guys, there are no sub-questions. We have a time limit, here. ;)
19:23 [@MikeTurian] I never considered Echoing truth
19:24 [@Maro] Can I give sub-answers?
19:24 [@MikeTurian] I wanted something simple
19:24 [~Gardevi] Sub-answers are fine
19:24 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:24 [@Maro] ga
19:24 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:24 [@Maro] ga
19:24 [@Maro] This is lke tag, no?
19:24 [+ContagionClasp] What's up with the dearth of common proliferate cards? Would be nice for the mechanic to show up more often in Limited.
19:24 [~Gardevi] (Next few in the queue - toracctid, Kirblar024, forty2j)
19:24 [@Maro] Mike, what is with the dearth of common proliferate cards?
19:25 [@Maro] I turned in the set with a whle bunch of them. :)
19:25 [@MikeTurian] Mark did turn in the set with a lot more proliferate cards
19:25 [@Maro] I sound drunk when I type fast/.
19:25 [@MikeTurian] and I did tune it back quite a bit
19:25 [@MikeTurian] To me Proliferate is a pretty cool small mechanic
19:25 [@Maro] Thrummingbird was common in the handoff.
19:26 [@MikeTurian] I wanted it to come up in gameplay but not be overwhelming
19:26 [@MikeTurian] I also wanted to leave room for new proliferate cards in MBS
19:26 [@MikeTurian] etc
19:26 [@Maro] They promised me we could make more.
19:26 [@MikeTurian] and I felt like that meant a small number would bring
19:26 [@MikeTurian] a nice impact
19:26 [@MikeTurian] without being overwhelming
19:27 [@Maro] Development did make Contagion Clasp a lot better.
19:27 [@MikeTurian] I love Thrumming Bird and Contagion Clasp
19:27 [@MikeTurian] as fun repeatable effects
19:27 [@Maro] The original version sacced to proliferate.
19:27 [+ContagionClasp] Thanks development, I like being better
19:27 [+ContagionClasp] ^_^
19:27 [@MikeTurian] haha
19:27 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:27 [@Maro] ga
19:27 [+troacctid] So. The Tribal card type. Still not evergreen. What's going on with that? Any plans?
19:28 [@Maro] I'm going to lt you all in on some unhappy news. R&D isn't too fond of tribal.
19:28 [@MikeTurian] I'll let Mark take that one :)
19:28 [@Maro] What we've found is that it adds a lot of words that don't mean much most of the time.
19:28 [@Maro] And once people know tribal exists they question why it isn't on cards that clearly have the right flavor.
19:29 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:29 [@Maro] Why isn't Goblin Bombardment "Enchantment - Goblin"?
19:30 [@Maro] While I think you might see it used every once in a while like it was in Rise of the Eldrazi, I don't think you'll see it as a major component any time soon.
19:30 [@Maro] ga
19:30 [+Kirblar024] In GDS2, what was the mechanic/theme was that was making up 1/4 of the submissions? (And just for fun, you were 100% right about Aethersworn Adept not being right as a hybrid, and I love Hornet Sting. If it was colorless and in Rise of the Eldrazi, no one would care. /endblatantsuckupfest)
19:31 [@Maro] The major theme was "enchantment matters".
19:31 [~Gardevi] (Next few in the queue - forty2j, JWay, LaurieChe)
19:31 [@Maro] It showed up 1 out of 4 in the first half batch.
19:31 [@Maro] Another popular theme is "the mana's gone crazy",
19:31 [@MikeTurian] I haven't read any of the GDS submissions
19:31 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:32 [@Maro] There were a lot of neat ideas but there was also a *lot* of repetition.
19:32 [@Maro] I spent four days straight reading all the design tests and it was quite the expereince.
19:32 [@MikeTurian] I will say I came down to R&D the other day and his eyes are bugged out
19:32 [@Maro] I wouldn't mind Hornet Sting if it was colorless. I care less about a green deck being able to do it than the ability showing up on a green card.
19:33 [@Maro] Color definition is one of the most important aspects of the game, possibly the most important thing.
19:33 [@Maro] ga
19:33 [+forty2j] Mox Opal + Memnites have enabled a (rather difficult, involving Tome Scour hitting 4 Vengvines) Turn 1 kill in Standard. Is this something you're OK with (and even knew about), if it's sufficiently hard, or would you prefer to avoid it at all costs?
19:33 [@Maro] Mike?
19:33 [@MikeTurian] Sweet!
19:34 [%alexis_j] that was my first thought too :)
19:34 [@MikeTurian] I didn't know that it was a possibility
19:34 [@MikeTurian] when I put together Scars
19:34 [@Maro] I get to add another notch onto the Turn 1 kill list.
19:34 [@MikeTurian] but I don't mind the wacky Turn 1 kill
19:34 [@MikeTurian] I only mind the Turn 1 kill that has a chance of being consistent or powerful
19:34 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:35 [@Maro] Great things that happen infrequently make Magic memorable.
19:35 [@Maro] ga
19:35 [+JWay] I think powerful cards like Koth and Jace are cool but makes the game MUCH less fun because even if I'm lucky enough to get 1, it's sad because I still need 3 more for a deck and they are way to expensive. If the OBV powercards had a reverse Chitering Rats rule so a deck could only play 1, that would bring a lot of balance. What do you think?
19:35 [~Gardevi] (Next few in the queue - LaurieChe, JerseyBricklayer, uwgeric)
19:36 [@Maro] This is a hard question to answer in this forum.
19:36 [@Maro] But I'll try.
19:36 [+JWay] Try is good
19:37 [@Maro] Trading card games are all about each person having different things.
19:37 [@Maro] I understand that there are people who want to have whatever they want, but I don't think those are the people we are suppose to design to.
19:38 [@Maro] When you boil it all down, my job is to make you want to buy a booster pack of Magic.
19:38 [@Maro] I am trying to create a game fun enough that it is worth your hard earned money.
19:38 [@Maro] The vast, vast majority of people are not trying to get everything.
19:39 [@Maro] They want to have a fun experience when they open the booster and a fun game to play with the cards once they do.
19:39 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:39 [%alexis_j] I would also add that there is a reason we only ban cards in most formats and only use restrictions in Vintage :) restrictions have proven to introduce a bit too much variance.
19:39 [%alexis_j] (ga)
19:39 [@Maro] We try to balance between having exciting cards for them to open and having enough useful cards so that they can build a deck with what they do open.
19:40 [@MikeTurian] Shadow demon!
19:40 [@MikeTurian] my facebook buddy
19:40 [@Maro] I understand why the focus goes on the mythics because supply and demand say that people most want what they don't have.
19:40 [@Maro] But Magic is not just about fifteen (or ten) cards in the set.
19:41 [@Maro] If you want to play golf at the highest level of competition that's a different thing that wanting to go out and play a fun game of golf.
19:41 [@Maro] If you have one Jace (or whatever mythic you want to fill in), you can play with one of them.
19:42 [@Maro] It's not like you can only play with 1 or 4.
19:42 [@Maro] And there are people who want to track down the cards and play with 4.
19:42 [@Maro] We shouldn't prevent them because other people don't have 4.
19:43 [@Maro] I know this is a thorny issue and it's not fun that people can't just have whatever they want
19:43 [@Maro] But that's true in all of life, not just Magic.
19:43 [@Maro] The role R&D works hard at is making sure that the game is fun with whatever cards you own.
19:43 [@Maro] And I am very happy with the work that we've done to do that.
19:44 [@Maro] ga
19:44 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:44 [+LaurieChe] That took a while. :) Anyway, Necrotic Ooze has a Mirran watermark, but its art is used to represent Phyrexia all over the website. What's going on there? Is the watermark a mistake?
19:44 [@MikeTurian] How very strange!
19:44 [@MikeTurian] Certainly not a mistake, the card was marked as Mirran intentionally
19:45 [@Maro] Design laid out some guidlelines for what was Phyrexian and what was not.
19:45 [@Maro] Remember that we allocated only 20% for the Phyrexian cards.
19:45 [@MikeTurian] One of the challenges of artwork for Black Cards is it will always look extra dark and brooding
19:45 [@Maro] If the card didn't do one of the things we laid out, then it was Mirran.
19:45 [@MikeTurian] Another card, Mimic Vat was clearly Mirran
19:45 [@Maro] Remember, by the way, that Mirrodin did have some creepy stuff.
19:45 [@MikeTurian] as it has Imprint, but the art does look dark and creepy
19:46 [@MikeTurian] Also, we did want to show some ammount of Phyrexian infecting Mirrodin
19:46 [@MikeTurian] amount
19:46 [@MikeTurian] and that is how come we did a card like Tel-Jilad Fallen
19:47 [@MikeTurian] which draws from the Tel-Jilad of Mirrodin while being a Phyrexian card
19:47 [@Maro] In a perfect world, that art would not have shown up representing Phyrexia.
19:47 [+LaurieChe] so in summary: website editors don't read watermarks? Thanks.
19:47 [@Maro] ga
19:48 [@MikeTurian] Well when they deal with a card, it isn't in card form
19:48 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:48 [+JerseyBricklayer] If the SOM block is about a phyrexian invasion, when/if ever, will we see the return of Yawgmoth ? if u can even talk about that.......;)
19:48 [~Gardevi] (Next few in the queue - uwgeric, norbert88, xinpig)
19:49 [@Maro] You're asking a story question of non-story people.
19:49 [@Maro] Yawgmoth was a man that died on a whole other plane a long time ago.
19:49 [+JerseyBricklayer] phyrexian lord
19:50 [%NorrYtt] Creative will tell you that Yawgmoth is dead. Final resting place...Urborg, the Tomb of Yawgmoth.
19:50 [@Maro] Will we somehow see him in this block? No comment.
19:50 [@Maro] Yawgmoth began as a man. Yes, he kind of changed during his time in Phyrexia.
19:50 [@Maro] ga
19:50 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:50 [%NorrYtt] ga
19:51 [@Maro] Quick story: Yawgmoth's Agenda was first translated in Japanese as Ywgmoth's Day Planner.
19:51 [@Maro] ga
19:51 [~Gardevi] uwgeric has disappeared, so on to norbert88!
19:51 [+norbert88] What other abilities did Sword of Body and Mind have when you were playtesting?
19:52 [~Gardevi] (Next few in the queue - xinpig, The_Demons, origin)
19:52 [@MikeTurian] I think Alexis came up with the Mill 10
19:52 [@Maro] At one point, the blue part unsommoned.
19:52 [@MikeTurian] The big thing was settling on the name
19:52 [@MikeTurian] Body and Mind
19:52 [@Maro] It was a little too annoying.
19:52 [%M_Tabak] "That gameplay sucked" - Zac Hill
19:52 [@MikeTurian] because that really drove the cards gameplay
19:52 [@Maro] I think it was called Sword of Bounce and Bears for a while in design.
19:53 [@MikeTurian] very true
19:53 [@Maro] ga
19:53 [@MikeTurian] It was a card we had to lock down earlier than all the other Scars cards
19:53 [@MikeTurian] because it was in From the Vault Relics
19:53 [@Maro] Because it was in From the Vault: Relics.
19:53 [@MikeTurian] once we had Mill 10 it was an easy call
19:53 [@Maro] Sarbathed
19:53 [@Maro] Sarnathed
19:54 [@MikeTurian] to go with 2/2
19:54 [@Maro] ga
19:54 [%alexis_j] i can confirm somehow being the person who came up with milling for a blue ability :) there honestly aren't a lot of great options that don't overlap, haven't been done, and fit on the card, and still make an interesting card.
19:54 [%alexis_j] (ga)
19:54 [@MikeTurian] ga
19:54 [+norbert88] Thanks
19:54 [+xinpig] How did necrotic ooze come to be/designed, and why only activated abilities of creatures? (I enjoy this card)
19:54 [@Maro] My suggestion of Time Walk was turned down. :)
19:54 [@Maro] The reason it's only activated abilities has to do with the rules.
19:55 [@Maro] The rules are able to easily copy activated abilities and not so much other abilities.
19:55 [@Maro] Matt?
19:55 [%alexis_j] not when you try to merge them from multiple sources onto one card. (as opposed to just a Clone)
19:55 [@MikeTurian] Also, the fact that it picks up less abilities
19:56 [%WotC_Lee] Copying static abilities from cards in the graveyard causes all types of shenanigans to happen. Multiple CDAs setting its P/T to different values, for example.
19:56 [@Maro] I don't know why things don't work I just learn what I'm not supposed to mess with.
19:56 [@MikeTurian] makes the game play simpler
19:56 [+xinpig] I also meant activated abilities of enchantments and artifacts
19:56 [@MikeTurian] if it was copying every triggered ability, that would be very crazy!
19:56 [@Maro] Hmm, copying artifacts and enchantments. Let me write that down.
19:56 [%alexis_j] :)
19:56 [+xinpig] :)
19:56 [@Maro] ga
19:56 [%alexis_j] ga
19:57 [@MikeTurian] I do remember making the Ooze better
19:57 [+The_Demons] Hi, my name is Dan Emmons! I was wondering if you could (semi-quickly) explain the process design went through in terms of designing Scars limited, from kick off to hand off?
19:57 [@MikeTurian] because I thought it was such a fun card
19:57 [%M_Tabak] Necrotic Ooze + Terravore and Magnivore in graveyard = bad times.
19:57 [@Maro] Dan, I read your design test.
19:58 [+The_Demons] you did!
19:58 [~Gardevi] [19:56] *** Now talking to NerdyNathan
19:58 [~Gardevi] [19:56] [NerdyNathan] Can I ask "Were there any big rules changes considered for M11, on par with the changes in M10?"
19:58 [~Gardevi] [19:56] NerdyNathan is Mibbit@mib-53C07E22.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net http://www.mibbit.com
19:58 [~Gardevi] [19:56] NerdyNathan on #r&dchat
19:58 [~Gardevi] [19:56] NerdyNathan using irc.us.mibbit.net Mibbit IRC Server
19:58 [~Gardevi] [19:56] NerdyNathan idle 1, signed on Wed Oct 27 19:49:56 2010
19:58 [@Maro] Let me see if I can answer your simple little question.
19:58 [~Gardevi] Oops!
19:58 [~Gardevi] (Next few in the queue - origin, Fzghoul, Set_Builder)
19:58 [@Maro] We knew that Phyrexia was invading Mirrodin.
19:58 [~Gardevi] (copy/paste fail, please ignore)
19:58 [@Maro] We wanted to make sure that we gave each side some things to do mechanically.
19:59 [@Maro] I knew that I wanted Phyexia to do something with poison.
19:59 [@Maro] From there, it was a matter of making sure that each side had an equal amount and that each had answers to the other.
20:00 [@Maro] We already talked about how darksteel and infect played nicely,
20:00 [@Maro] Well, they interacted. I'm sure Mirrodin didn't like it.
20:00 [+The_Demons] right
20:00 [+The_Demons] haha
20:01 [@Maro] From there, it was a matter of balance.
20:01 [+The_Demons] how much of that was design as opposed to development
20:01 [@Maro] Mike can talk about how they fine tuned what design set up.
20:01 [@Maro] The two sides was all design but the balance was development.
20:01 [@Maro] Mike?
20:02 [@MikeTurian] hi
20:03 [@Maro] They want to know about how you balanced the two sides for limited.
20:03 [@MikeTurian] ah
20:03 [@MikeTurian] thanks
20:03 [@MikeTurian] Tom stopped by my desk
20:04 [@MikeTurian] and distracted me
20:04 [@Maro] (shaking fist) La Pille!
20:04 [~Gardevi] We're publishing this transcript, so we'll get the public to yell at him.
20:04 [@MikeTurian] my first goal for limited was to make sure that the gameplay was a fun experience
20:04 [@MikeTurian] and Mirran vs Phyrexian was a piece of that
20:05 [@MikeTurian] I really wanted to make sure that at least one person could draft infect
20:05 [@Maro] That person was me.
20:05 [@MikeTurian] and maybe another could draft infect with proliferate
20:05 [@MikeTurian] it was a tough balancing act for sure
20:05 [@MikeTurian] because normally in limited all creatures play well with each other
20:06 [@MikeTurian] but in Scars infect creatures and non infect creatures work on two axis
20:06 [@MikeTurian] i fought this tendency by introducing cards like
20:06 [@MikeTurian] Blight Mamba
20:06 [@MikeTurian] which you want to play in all sorts of decks
20:06 [%alexis_j] there's your draft tip for the day everyone: if you're to the left of Maro, stay out of infect :)
20:07 [@MikeTurian] Trigon of Green
20:07 [@Maro] Also if you're on the right.
20:07 [@MikeTurian] to make snakes
20:07 [@MikeTurian] and +2/+2 and infect equipment
20:07 [@MikeTurian] all of which you will want in your deck
20:07 [@Maro] And Tainted Strike.
20:08 [@MikeTurian] and once you have them in your deck
20:08 [@MikeTurian] you want more infect
20:08 [@MikeTurian] so you aren't just all infect or no infect
20:08 [@MikeTurian] yes, Tainted Strike also
20:08 [@Maro] Design did try to create infect creatures you'd use even if it was the only infect creature.
20:08 [@MikeTurian] its fun because if your opponent isn't playing infect you can Tainted Strike to "prevent" damage to you
20:08 [@MikeTurian] It is also why life gain is quite good in Scars
20:08 [@Maro] Blight Mamba is a good blocker.
20:09 [@MikeTurian] Another way to balance the infect/non-infect interactions
20:09 [@Maro] Mike means the life gain cards in relation to other life gain cards.
20:09 [@Maro] I am very happy with how infect played out.
20:09 [@Maro] Good job, Mike.
20:09 [@MikeTurian] yes that is what I meant
20:09 [@MikeTurian] thanks!
20:09 [@MikeTurian] ga
20:09 [@Maro] ga
20:10 [@MikeTurian] Grafted Exoskeleton is the equipment I mentioned
20:10 [+origin] I'm super excited to say Blight Mamba is my favourite Common EVER! Maro how happy are you with poison so far? What's the publics response been? Will you be happier if it makes it far on a ProTour?
20:10 [@Maro] I am about as happy with infect as I can be.
20:10 [@Maro] It took fourteen years to do it, but I feel I did it as well as I could.
20:10 [@MikeTurian] I'm hoping that Infect does see some play at the Pro level
20:11 [@Maro] The public has been very positive about infect.
20:11 [@Maro] Well, except when they lose to it.
20:11 [+origin] What's been the biggest draw back (if any) or has there been any backlash from the community so far? Thanks for your time :)
20:11 [@Maro] As with any mechanic, not everyone likes it.
20:11 [@Maro] Infect has more haters than average because it pulls the game farther away from the default.
20:11 [@MikeTurian] I haven't felt any backlash but there are people who aren't fans
20:11 [@Maro] It also has a lot of lovers for the same reason.
20:11 [@MikeTurian] I think it is such a flavorful mechanic
20:12 [+origin] Will it get worse for those that hate being poisoned as the Scars block unfolds?
20:12 [@MikeTurian] which is what I liked about it from the beginning
20:12 [@Maro] We haven't done the godbook study yet, but I'm guessing infect will score well with the public.
20:12 [@Maro] If you are a hater of infect, this isn't you're block.
20:12 [@Maro] It's going to get worse.
20:13 [@MikeTurian] ga
20:13 [@Maro] Phyrexian is only at 20% in SOM. That number may go up in Mirrodin Besieged.
20:13 [~Gardevi] No follow-up questions, please
20:13 [@Maro] And by "may" I mean "will of course".
20:13 [@Maro] ga
20:13 [+Fzghoul] Hey, my name is Mohammad Ali. In some sets, like Odyssey, mechanics have high cohesion. In other blocks, like Scars of Mirrodin, the mechanics create distinct factions, despite having a small degree of overlap. Which type of set is harder to Design/Develop? On a personal level, which do you prefer? Thank you!
20:13 [~Gardevi] (Next few in the queue - Set_Builder, Absird, gtskull)
20:14 [@MikeTurian] hi
20:14 [@Maro] Are you the Mohammad Ali that submitted a design test or the one that's an awesome boxer? Or both?
20:14 [+Fzghoul] Both, good sir.
20:14 [@MikeTurian] I'm impressed Mark remembers
20:14 [@MikeTurian] he read so many tests
20:14 [+Fzghoul] I am too!
20:14 [@MikeTurian] I think the sets where there is a lot of overlap is more challenging
20:15 [@Maro] One of the great joys of designing Magic is that there is so much variety.
20:15 [@MikeTurian] For me in Magic there is so much power in synergy
20:15 [@Maro] I'm known for having a high level of synergy in my sets.
20:15 [@MikeTurian] take Slivers for example
20:15 [@MikeTurian] If I spend a month making Slivers perfect
20:15 [@MikeTurian] and then at the last minute we decide to add in
20:15 [@Maro] Note that there is mechanical overlap between Mirrodin and Phyrexia.
20:15 [@MikeTurian] 1G, 1/1, All Slivers get +1/+1
20:16 [@MikeTurian] We have really altered how Slivers will work
20:16 [@Maro] We were well aware that proliferate worked well with charge counters, for example.
20:16 [@Maro] So even a fanctioned set stil has cross synergy. Well, at least my sets do.
20:16 [@Maro] Must pack in more synergy...
20:16 [@Maro] ga
20:16 [+Fzghoul] Thanks!
20:16 [@MikeTurian] I liked that Scars had some overlap but not so much that any small change would throw the set into a whack
20:16 [@MikeTurian] Imagine Odyssey with Wild Mongrel
20:16 [@MikeTurian] err without
20:17 [@MikeTurian] and it would totally change your take on Madness
20:17 [@Maro] I can imagine Odyssey with Wild Mongrel
20:17 [@MikeTurian] ga
20:17 [@MikeTurian] good work
20:17 [@Maro] ga
20:17 [@MikeTurian] haha
20:17 [+Set_Builder] I want to see a card that can manipulate the stack, has this ever come up when making a card/any chance of this in the near future? (not that I'm going anywhere, Just won an SOM draft literally seconds ago yay!)
20:17 [@MikeTurian] one of the coolest things I saw when I came to Wizards was a whole stack of Wild Mongrels in test frames
20:18 [@MikeTurian] it was bizarre
20:18 [@Maro] We're not so keen with manipulating the stack.
20:18 [@Maro] For starters, most players don't know what "the stack" is.
20:18 [@MikeTurian] I think the closest we have come is a card like Venser, Shaper Savant (the Future Sight)
20:18 [@MikeTurian] card
20:18 [@MikeTurian] but we don't mention the stack
20:18 [@MikeTurian] unless we really really have to
20:18 [+Set_Builder] Yes, not meaning to follow up, but I meant really changing the order of everything that is stacked.
20:19 [@Maro] We do make cards that indirectly do it but we don't use the word "stack" on cards if we can help it.
20:19 [@Maro] I don't know how to do that effect without mentioning the stack.
20:19 [@MikeTurian] I think we stick to cards like Reverberate
20:19 [%alexis_j] "the stack" exists to serve a mechanical purpose, not to provide design space. I'm open to being proven wrong, but it feels like space we don't want to go to, or Magic will lose something ... magical.
20:19 [@MikeTurian] or Deflection effetcts
20:19 [@Maro] It's also not an effect that is as interesting as you would think. Design has messed with cards like that.
20:19 [@MikeTurian] to me it would be like mentioning Cleanup
20:19 [@Maro] ga
20:19 [%alexis_j] (ga)
20:19 [@Maro] Hmm, cleanup cards.
20:20 [@Maro] Just kidding, a bad idea.
20:20 [@Maro] ga
20:20 [@MikeTurian] I'm sure there is design space there but we stay away from certain things
20:20 [@MikeTurian] ga
20:20 [+Absird] Why is Venser, the Sojourner U/W, and how did you come up with his "ultimate" (really all Planeswakers but another time...) and the creation of Emblems? Thank you.
20:20 [@Maro] The design space is limited. We looked.
20:20 [~Gardevi] (Next few in the queue - gtskull, magicnew, craig)
20:20 [@Maro] We didn't come up with emblems. The rules people did to make what we made work.
20:20 [@MikeTurian] very true that
20:20 [@Maro] I'm proud of Venser's design as I like the teleport flavor.
20:21 [@MikeTurian] one of my biggest concerns during templating
20:21 [@Maro] Plus I love me some flicker effects.
20:21 [@MikeTurian] was if Venser and Koth's ultimates would work
20:21 [@MikeTurian] Mark was very big on making sure Venser was a teleporter
20:21 [@MikeTurian] and we tried a lot of abilities on him
20:21 [@Maro] Venser, by the way, was designed by the whole Scars team in a meeting./
20:21 [@Maro] And then development changed one of his abilities.
20:21 [@MikeTurian] the blink effect was always very popular
20:21 [@Maro] The flicker stayed though. Woo!
20:21 [@Maro] ga
20:22 [%NorrYtt] Both Koth and Venser required grafting rules text onto players (aka emblems). Elspeth, Knight-Errant was retro-fitted and Stigma Lasher was left alone.
20:22 [%NorrYtt] ga
20:22 [%M_Tabak] Without Emblem tech, Venser would just keep exiling the same target over and over again.
20:22 [%M_Tabak] (or at least trying)
20:22 [@Maro] Sounds like the ending of a Twilight Zone.
20:22 [@Maro] ga
20:23 [~Gardevi] Mike?
20:23 [@MikeTurian] one funny thing
20:23 [@MikeTurian] that happened
20:23 [@MikeTurian] i was looking at the multiverse file
20:23 [@MikeTurian] one funny thing that happened was we conduct a rare poll
20:23 [@MikeTurian] to see how people like the rares/mythics in a set
20:23 [@MikeTurian] and Mark Gottlieb wrote on venser
20:23 [@MikeTurian] This doesn't work like you think it does
20:24 [@MikeTurian] on an earlier version
20:24 [@MikeTurian] so I walked over to Mark's desk and explained how I thought it worked
20:24 [@MikeTurian] and he was like, nope
20:24 [@MikeTurian] explained to me how it worked
20:24 [@MikeTurian] when I can't figure out a card, it is time to change its rules
20:24 [@MikeTurian] and so the design team came up with a new ultimate
20:24 [@Maro] My philosophy.
20:24 [@MikeTurian] ga
20:25 [%WotC_Lee] Emblems make those cards work how players think they should. :)
20:25 [@Maro] ga
20:25 [+gkStull] soooooo, since my questions 1 & 2 (ooze and sword) have been asked... I'll involve alexis and the gang as well: What is the most memorable card for each of you from designing/developing this set? Put another way, when I ask you about Scars 5 years from now, what's the first card you'll recall working with?
20:25 [@MikeTurian] now im done
20:25 [@MikeTurian] Mox Opal
20:25 [@MikeTurian] for me
20:25 [@MikeTurian] hands down
20:25 [+gkStull] feel free to provide cool stories
20:25 [@Maro] Infect is the thing that's going to always ring true for this set.
20:26 [@Maro] I'm also proud of proliferate.
20:26 [%alexis_j] I won't ever forget Wurmcoil Engine, but that's as much the "flavor" behind it when I was designing it and people were playtesting it than the card itself :)
20:26 [@MikeTurian] When I found out I was the lead of a return to Mirrodin, I knew I would get to make a mox
20:26 [@MikeTurian] Mo
20:26 [@MikeTurian] x
20:26 [@MikeTurian] and that was really special for me
20:26 [@MikeTurian] We tried it as non-Legendary but that was just way too powerful
20:26 [@Maro] I'm very fond of Clone Shell. It was called Meat Puppet for all of design.
20:27 [@Maro] Lux Cannon (another card I'm proud of designing) was called Killing Machine.
20:27 [@MikeTurian] Memnite also
20:27 [%alexis_j] even though you can't tell too much from the abilities, Wurmcoil Engine sprang from me thinking about Belugatron, a fictional robotic whale superhero designed and drawn by another programmer here at Wizards :)
20:27 [@Maro] Belugatron was the design name obviously.
20:27 [@MikeTurian] I love Koth
20:27 [%alexis_j] when playtesters started calling the tokens "Bel" and "Uga", that was awesome :)
20:27 [@MikeTurian] it is my kind of Planeswalker
20:28 [@MikeTurian] Another of my favorites was the Goblin Gaveleer
20:28 [@MikeTurian] I just love beating down with him so much
20:28 [@MikeTurian] ga
20:28 [@Maro] ga
20:28 [%alexis_j] ga
20:28 [~Gardevi] (next - craig)
20:29 [~Gardevi] Magicnew is up now. :)
20:29 [@MikeTurian] he quit
20:29 [~Gardevi] :/
20:29 [~Gardevi] doh
20:29 [@MikeTurian] *** Magicnew quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
20:29 [+Craig] Alexis mentioned earlier that Vintage-style restrictions create too much variance in formats. Would it be possible to use these in other formats? As an example, restricting skullclamp over banning in Mirrodin 1.0 would allow people to play with it competitively while other decks i.e. Elf and Nail would not be induced to warp their deck for four Skullclamps.
20:30 [@Maro] If ony he knew he was next.
20:30 [~Gardevi] (next - wahonez)
20:30 [@MikeTurian] haha
20:30 [@MikeTurian] We don't do restrictions in formats besides Vintage
20:30 [+Craig] =(
20:30 [@Maro] The problem with restricting versus banning is that it's a much harder message to get across.
20:30 [@MikeTurian] yes
20:30 [@Maro] And it's much harder to check on.
20:31 [@MikeTurian] I think it causes a whole new can of worms to be opened
20:31 [@Maro] ga
20:31 [+Craig] Thank you!
20:31 [@MikeTurian] If formats are all about well this card is too good, ban it!
20:31 [@MikeTurian] then that is one thing
20:31 [@MikeTurian] but " This card is almost too good, restrict it!
20:31 [@MikeTurian] "
20:31 [@MikeTurian] it is a tough message
20:31 [@MikeTurian] we try and keep the B&R list manageable
20:32 [@MikeTurian] ga
20:32 [~Gardevi] LAST QUESTION (Time's up!)
20:32 [@Maro] Make it good.
20:32 [+wahonez] When will you reveal the big twist for the 3rd set in this block? I see the factions have their own facebook pages now. I can't help but think there may be a cool reason for such things. BTW whoever did the Mirrodin/Phyrexian videos did a great job.
20:32 [@MikeTurian] The Faction videos were pretty awesome
20:33 [@Maro] I thought the videos were great (and I had nothing to do with them).
20:33 [@MikeTurian] I think we wait for at least the second set of the block to come out
20:33 [@MikeTurian] before moving onto the third
20:33 [@Maro] Is there a big twist? Maybe.
20:33 [@MikeTurian] one thing I find funny is how often people are dying to know the future
20:33 [@Maro] There is very much a block plan in action. Ha ha, in "Action".
20:33 [@MikeTurian] but I have always found waiting a little longer is always exciting
20:34 [@Maro] "Action" is the codename for the third set.
20:34 [@Maro] That joke was funny to three people.
20:34 [@MikeTurian] was I one of them?
20:34 [%WotC_Lee] Bazinga!
20:34 [%alexis_j] maybe more!
20:34 [@MikeTurian] one more question?
20:34 [@MikeTurian] one more!
20:34 [~Gardevi] Okay, okay!
20:34 [@Maro] I do believe before the year is out that you will hear something about "Action".
20:34 [@Maro] One more!
20:35 [+flglfwali] How do you decide how many and what cards to make for limited and for standard?
20:35 [@MikeTurian] well all cards are for limited
20:35 [@MikeTurian] in a sense
20:35 [@Maro] I do not design cards for a particular format (with a few exceptions).
20:35 [@MikeTurian] since you can't play limited without seeing all of the cards
20:36 [@Maro] I make cool Magic cards along with many other designers and we see what you all do with them.
20:36 [@MikeTurian] and we don't necessarily pick cards for Standard
20:36 [@MikeTurian] there are the occasional card like Tunnel Ignus
20:36 [@Maro] Mike, is right. We do design for limited.
20:36 [@MikeTurian] or Leonin Arbiter that I know are constructed relevant
20:36 [@MikeTurian] but I try and make awesome cards
20:37 [@Maro] I like to think of design as tool makers. We make tools. Sure the hammer is probably going to pound nails but players can do whatever they want with the hammer.
20:37 [@MikeTurian] that I believe will have a place in the format
20:37 [@MikeTurian] often I'm surprised about a card that I thought would only be played in limited
20:37 [@MikeTurian] to find out it does have a constructed impact
20:37 [@Maro] In fact, one of the fun things for me is to see what the players do wit the tools we make. I'm surprised a lot.
20:37 [@Maro] I feel like I'm in a Robert Altman film where two people talk concurrently.
20:38 [@MikeTurian] We do make sure that the sets have all the elements to make for fun limited play
20:38 [@MikeTurian] you are
20:38 [@Maro] And scene.
20:38 [@MikeTurian] ga
20:38 [@Maro] (bows)
20:38 [@Maro] ga
20:38 [~Gardevi] Thanks everyone for coming!
20:38 [@MikeTurian] thanks for your patience everyone
20:38 [~Gardevi] Thanks guests Mark Rosewater and Mike Turian
20:38 [@MikeTurian] enjoy Scars!
20:38 [@Maro] Thanks for all the good questions.
20:38 [~Gardevi] And especially Matt Tabak who called Mike to tell him to come!
20:38 [@Maro] Enjoy Scars!
20:38 [@MikeTurian] hehe
20:38 [%M_Tabak] :)
20:39 [@Maro] Keep infecting!
20:39 [~Gardevi] And we can't forget alexis janson, ken nagle, eric sorenson and lee sharpe who showed up for some reason!
20:39 [~Gardevi] Thanks guys!
20:39 [@Maro] Until next time...
20:39 [%alexis_j] i love showing up for some reason.
20:39 [ GameZoneAlpha] do you think infect will be a staple mechanic in sets to come? and can you guys fan my store page GameZoneAlpha on Facebook?
20:39 [@Maro] Bye bye
20:39 [ GameZoneAlpha] do you think infect will be a staple mechanic in sets to come? and can you guys fan my store page GameZoneAlpha on Facebook?
20:39 [%WotC_Lee] It's fun to show up :P
20:39 [ wahonez] Cheers!
20:39 [ JerseyBricklayer] to refer to my earlyer question. yawgmoth lived! he did not ide, only weakened!. and the storyline usually ties to the cards, no?
20:39 [ Fzghoul] Thank you!
20:39 [ GameZoneAlpha] do you think infect will be a staple mechanic in sets to come? and can you guys fan my store page GameZoneAlpha on Facebook?
20:39 [ Deadcandance] Are we going to see a reprint of cool Phyrexian cards like, Negator and Flesh Reaver? Or even knew cards of the same nature?
20:39 [ AndreaShubert] Thanks for the chat. =)
20:39 [ JerseyBricklayer] thanks
20:39 [ Fzghoul] :D
20:39 [ Absird] Thank you all
20:39 [ Iron_Blood2] thanks!
20:40 [ ContagionClasp] You're welcome
20:40 [ bla] shuffiling ruins m'day!!!!!
20:40 [ stoneforgemystic] .
20:40 [ mib_1alchp] 0
20:40 [ Fzghoul] The chat format worked pretty well, thank you for organizing and moderating!
20:40 [ mib_1alchp] 322
20:40 [ mib_1alchp] 232
20:40 [ origin] Thanks for giving me voice Gardevi ;)
20:40 [ stoneforgemystic] someone should have asked what ffl thought the best deck would be
20:40 [~Gardevi] You're welcome!
20:40 [~Gardevi] Thanks for coming!
20:40 [ Fzghoul] :D
20:41 [~Gardevi] FzGhoul, can I have your email?
20:41 [ Krankenstien79] r&d dont create the best deck
20:41 [~Gardevi] I want to send you a thank-you for participating in the R&D chat
20:41 [ Fzghoul] Yes, fzghoul@gmail.com
20:41 [~Gardevi] Thanks!
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